A Dog Called Diversity
A Dog Called Diversity
The Best Diversity and Inclusion Energy.....with Devon Michelle
Today’s episode is with Devon Michelle. She is one fabulous black woman. She has so much drive and energy and I LOVED learning her story.
She’s a single mum, advocate for the underrepresented and through a non-traditional unplanned career path found a role that feels fulfills her purpose. She leads diversity and inclusion for a large multinational with responsibility for Canada, USA and South America and is nailing it!
If you are wanting to learn from people who have built their career in diversity and inclusion Devon's path is a great example.
We talked about the challenges of this career choice including how you have no control, how diversity means different things across the world and how to be the effective when you are driving work across a large region. We also talked about how progress can be slow and the work can be lonely, but engaging with people across the organisation is key.
She is also FUNNY and clever and a complete live wire. She has over 40,000 followers on TikTok (because she is funny and clever). She also has a banging instagram where she calls herself the Olivia Pope of HR (I would agree). Her DP square instragam page is great too.
Have a listen. Check out her social media.
The Culture Ministry we specialise in building sustainable businesses through productive and effective work cultures.
We do this through:
🟡 Culture Audits, Surveys, Benchmarking and Data Work
🟡 Crafting Culture Strategy that connects with Organisational Purpose
🟡 Long term leadership programs to advance leadership teams in building sustainable and inclusive cultures. What that leaders say, do, and measure, has a massive impact on your culture and the sustainability of your business.
🟡 Providing structure and tools for Employee Resource Groups to be successful, and drive better business outcomes.
We love working with organisations who know change is needed.
Go to https://www.thecultureministry.com/ to learn more
Sign up to our newsletter.
If you enjoyed this episode and maybe learnt something please share with your friends on social media, give a 5 star rating on Apple podcasts and leave a comment. This makes it easier for others to find A Dog Called Diversity.
A Dog Called Diversity is proud to be featured in Feedsp...
Welcome to the fourth series of A Dog Called Diversity, a podcast where we explore the themes of diversity, equity and inclusion through sharing stories of personal and powerful lived experiences. Today's episode is with Devon Michelle. She is one fabulous black woman. She's a single mum, advocate for the underrepresented and, through non-traditional, unplanned career path, found a role that fulfils her purpose. She leads diversity and inclusion for a large multinational with responsibility for Canada, usa and South America, and is nailing it. Here's your podcast host Lisa Mulligan and Devon Mishel.
Speaker 2:Welcome, devon, to the podcast. It's great to have you.
Speaker 3:Glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited to speak to you because you're a bit of a trailblazer. I see your work on Instagram and on TikTok. You're actually one of my favorite TikTokers. Is that even a term? Is that a term? I don't know we can make it a term today.
Speaker 3:We can make it a term. I love it, but why don't you tell us a bit about you, like where you're joining us from, a bit about your family there? I am joining you from the Naples Florida area. I am from Lexington, kentucky. I'm a little country girl at heart, but I love city vibes. Grew up middle class, two parents in the home. I function as an only child. My sister is 10 years older, so she wasn't in the household, so that's how I get the functionality that. I'm a spoiled brat, so that was my growing up. It's probably why I'm so passionate about getting things done, cause it's like yo, this is my idea. This is what we're going to do. We need to make it happen. Why can't you do it?
Speaker 2:Yes, Agree, agree, but tell me about growing up in Lexington, kentucky. What was that like?
Speaker 3:It was good Lexington. I don't want to say it's country country, but it's country, especially when you compare it to bigger cities. I went to private school most of my life just because my parents were particular about the schools that I went to. So I always said that I was the chocolate drop in the vanilla shake, because most of the time I will be the only African American either in my class or it'd be very a handful of us, Like, I think, my high school. I went to Lexington Catholic High School and there was 17 Blacks in the whole school and everybody either played a sport I was on dance team and cheerleading, so that was the opposite of what you would do if you didn't play any sports. So I was always around Caucasians and but my parents were very intentional.
Speaker 1:A lot of white people. Yes, a lot of white people.
Speaker 3:I learned to enjoy country music but I did it. But my parents were very intentional on getting me involved in things of my culture. Like there was a program called Black Achievers and things like that. So I did that on Saturday mornings for four hours, meet at a local school and see all the other Black people that were in my city. So it was really great. But growing up was wonderful. It was pretty low key, like I said, middle-class family. I don't think it was anything extraordinary, just except the fact that I was in private school most of my life and I just realized I'm just now getting a revelation of that.
Speaker 2:Wow, and did you go to university in Kentucky or did you, like many Americans do, travel to leave your family and study somewhere else?
Speaker 3:I wish I did, but I went to the University of Kentucky. We're big blue, we are diehard Wildcat fans. So, yes, I got my bachelor's in arts administration and a minor in dance. And then I love the arts and I realized they didn't pay very well unless you were in New York and the cost of living there is like a lot. So I decided to get my master's in human resource leadership and so that's when I was like, oh my God, there's another world out here of something that I actually enjoy and like to do.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I stayed in, I stayed in school and it was funny. Sorry, and get me back on track of you, because you know I can talk Right, did you warn your people, your audience, about me? Ok, I'll do that. Ok, great. But one of the interesting things was, um, which I think kind of leans into diversity a little bit. Growing up. I really didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up and I was thinking about education and I remember that I worked for a non-profit organization and I was teaching dance class during the summer program and one of the kids told me that I was not her mama and I knew I couldn't do nothing about it because she wasn't following direction. I said education is not for not for me, so that's when I was like I need to find a career that I can actually enjoy each day.
Speaker 3:So from there I was actually there was a restaurant called Fazoli's. It's a fast food Italian restaurant. The corporate office was in Lexington and I went by there like every day because it was like one of the main corporate, like big time jobs, right, and I have my resume there every day. When I say they knew me by name and face and resume, they knew me and I applied for several positions. Didn't get it, but I got my first job in human resources there and it was so eyeopening because I was like wow, there's so many women in this field and they're doing great, big stuff and they were in leadership, regional managers. I was like shut up, there's a whole nother world out here.
Speaker 3:So, that's when I was like I want to get my master's in HR leadership so I can make sure I understood what it was.
Speaker 2:That's really cool, and how long did you work for that company?
Speaker 3:For a glimpse of a moment. It was there. I started off as an HR coordinator and then the benefits coordinator went to lunch and didn't return. I started off as an HR coordinator and then the benefits coordinator went to lunch and didn't return. So I had to quickly learn benefits, which was awesome because it expanded. Always be ready to expand your wings, broaden your wings. But I stayed in that role maybe six months or a year. Then they downsized so my position was eliminated.
Speaker 3:But what was amazing about that is I connected with my boss, who was the director of total rewards and recognition, I think it was and she knew I was getting my degree. After I graduated she said Devin, send me your resume. And when your mentor and best great friend tells you to send a resume, you don't really ask questions. I just knew she was going to submit me for something, had no idea what the job was going to be, and she actually submitted me for a job with a franchise company for Pizza Hut, as a regional HR manager in Florida. So that's how I was introduced to the regional role in Florida.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Did you move to Florida to take up that role?
Speaker 3:I did and loved every bit of it. Hence the reason I'm back.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was going to ask because you're joining us from Florida and I was. I was kind of thinking about how did that come about? So and one of the one of the reasons we're talking about this story cause you work in diversity and inclusion now and I get asked all the time, lisa, how can I move my career into D&I? And so I want to tell people's stories about how they got there. So you worked in that regional role for how long?
Speaker 3:I worked in that role for about two to three years. It was a road warrior type positions and, to be honest, my HR career probably lasted about 20 years and I like to say that I'm still kind of in HR because it still deals with human people. Human people they're people, right, yeah. But but I was in human resources in various roles. That was just like South Florida. Then I got introduced to multi-state roles as a regional HR manager. Then I got, you know, responsible for a region, the whole east coast of the US, with another regional HR role.
Speaker 3:But I was in HR for about 20 years and I guess, because of my personality, I felt like I always kind of got I don't want to say stuck, but utilize it very greatly in employee relations. For those of the audience that don't know what employee relations is, it's when you have to do an investigation because probably somebody did something bad and I'm the one that can get to the download Now what happened? Just tell me how it is. And so I got people to open up. So I always ended up in investigation and so I felt like I was. It was kind of like mentally taxing at times and I really wanted to do like more like I wanted to be more proactive in my role and not just reactive.
Speaker 3:And and so I was actually in higher education. I had ended up moving back to Kentucky for a little bit, and so that's when I got introduced to higher education as an HR function and there was a role as a Title IX coordinator and a director of diversity and inclusion. So the roles were tied together and I was like shut up, people do this stuff.
Speaker 1:I want to learn more.
Speaker 3:And so that was what kind of piqued my interest, because I saw it as a role, as something to be more proactive in the college that I was at. I didn't get the role. Someone with their law degree got the role, but I was still open to it. And then there was so happened a role that came up in another higher education institute that was an assistant director, so that it just kind of transitioned and it kind of went hand in hand, because in diversity, inclusion, you have to look at a lot of policies and dealing with organization of people and information. So you kind of have to it would be nice to have don't want to say you have to have it but it would be nice to have an HR background. So that's kind of what got my foot in the door when it came to diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's cool and it's. You know, I think my story is a little bit similar. I've D&I role and I was like what is that? And I want to do that role. And what a cool company that has a head of diversity and inclusion. I mean, that's amazing, gosh, I'd love to do that role, but it'll never come up. And then it did. I was like, oh, I'm so applying. And I got the role. And I was like, oh, I'm so applying for it. And I got the role. And I was like super excited. But one of the things I often tell people is that the dream and the things you think you can do are somewhat different to the reality at times.
Speaker 3:These are facts. You speak great facts.
Speaker 2:So maybe tell us a bit about some of the work you did in that first D&I role, and that was for a college or a university.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was for an online nursing school graduate nursing school that I was at and I was the assistant director, and they had gotten a grant funding to expand their diversity efforts. So the first thing they did was increase their staff. They hired a CDIO my role, the assistant director and then there was a coordinator that basically was doing all the functions of the role already. Basically, the funding allowed us to increase diversity recruitment from a student standpoint. Then, obviously, if you want the population of the student, you want to increase the faculty because you want them to be learning from people that understand their world, their dynamics and things of that nature. So that role, it was very interesting because it was so data driven. It was so trying to understand where we need to target, what do we need to do, and one of the key things that I think people miss when it comes to D&I is relationship is key. If you don't have a relationship with the stakeholders or other business partners, you ain't going to get nothing done.
Speaker 3:Because I remember looking at my job description. One day I'm just I'm looking at my job description. Okay, what am I supposed to be doing? I know what my boss tell me to do, but I want to make sure that I'm meeting these, because when the end of the year comes up and my performance review is there, I want to know that I'm at the mark and I realized for the first time all these targets.
Speaker 3:I can't move by myself and a lot of the roles, like I have been in the past, like I can, you know, impact these roles by doing trainings. I can impact these roles by, you know, doing audits and this and that and building no baby. When it comes to diversity, if you have to make sure, because I think one of them was increasing diversity representation in the curriculum I don't know about no curriculum, so I had to partner with the curriculum committee and I was actually on various committees within the organization so I can be an influence to it Say, okay, I hear your idea, but here's our end in mind. How do we merge these together so we can both be satisfied with the end in mind? So, like I said, if you don't know how to play as a team, d&i is not for you.
Speaker 2:That is so true. Everything you do, you're often not doing it yourself. You're relying on other people to find diverse candidates, recruit diverse candidates, promote diverse candidates, develop diverse curriculum. You're often not doing it yourself and that makes it so challenging because the control that you might have is non-existent. In some way and I'm a control.
Speaker 3:Freak DNI helped me relinquish control. I'll say that Because, to your point, you don't have any control and your gauge is whether you empower the people that you work with enough to know the information, the benefit of D&I and how you can engage it into woven in one fabric. So we are both achieving our goals, because I can't do it without them. So you better like everybody and suck it up, Buttercup if you don't like it Like them because you've got a job to do.
Speaker 2:You're in a much bigger D&I role now for the us and south america and canada. Tell me what you've learned about trying to do dni across such a big geography where you have even less control. Yeah, what have you learned? That's important.
Speaker 3:Well, a couple of things that I've learned, and especially in my current role, is diversity does not look the same for everybody. Like I always knew, diversity was beyond color, skin, right, like we know, it's so much more sexual orientation, political views, like we know, it's all these other dynamics. But when you get into other countries, it's a whole nother ballgame is a whole nother ballgame. And one of the things I feel that I've done my first six months was just really assessing the need of what each region needs. And then in South America, each country, what do they need? Because one of the focus areas that I may do in that America definitely is not applicable in South America, you know, and whether it's in delivery style or whether it's the content in general.
Speaker 3:So that is one of the huge learning curve is that you have to be flexible, that it's not going to be a cookie cutter show. It may be tailored to whatever it is region you support. And then I also the other learning piece is how to be most effective in my role to get the information out to such a widespread, and that is, I've kind of learned to take on the project manager role so that I'm able to engage, train, assess from a higher level view and I'm used to being in the trenches Like I like getting dirty, I like doing the work but I can't because nothing would get done and then you're not going to be really impactful because only people that know the that has the intellectual capital would be me. So I have to go and continue to train and share and connect and partner with a wider group. So those are two components that I've learned since being in the role. But I absolutely love the company I work for and love the role that I'm in.
Speaker 2:That's really cool. You know, one of the, I think, hard lessons I had to learn is I think a lot of people work in this space because they have a personal value around having organizations that allow everyone to do good work and include everyone, and that's certainly one of my drivers, even when I was working in HR. It was like how do we just create great organizations but day to day, you don't often get to impact individuals and their experience because you're project managing or you're working out how to communicate something, and so one of the hesitations when I'm speaking with people who want to work in this space you know it's not social work. You're not going to be changing lives on a daily basis. You're going to be project management. You're going to be doing presentations. You're going to be project management. You're going to be doing presentations. You're going to be writing communications plans. You're going to be having conversations with leaders who are not buying what you're selling.
Speaker 1:So this is awesome, right? They haven't drunk the Kool-Aid yet.
Speaker 2:They haven't drunk the Kool-Aid yet and that can be really frustrating and it can feel really lonely. But I mean the work is still good, it's just you know you don't have great moments every day, right, yeah, but you know what blessed me today.
Speaker 3:Today, one of the things I do when I'm in a training, leading a conversation or anything is I really try to be approachable in the sense that because a lot of times people kind of get caught up in the work and they forget that we're humans that are interacting with each other.
Speaker 3:So one of the things that I really try to do is kind of like get to know people on a personal level and, if I remember because I admit I have a lot on my plate sometimes I try to do highs and lows and meetings says hey, how is your day going? Let's talk about your highs and lows so that I can get to know them as a person. And engaging with people to let them know that I'm personal. I had got a message from someone that I don't interact with on a regular basis in the company and they wanted to get my feedback and suggestion on how they can support a family member in the world of D&I from a personal level. And it blessed my heart so much because, even though I'm functioning in a project management role, I still want to be there to help on an individual role Because, at the end of the day, lisa still has a family at home.
Speaker 3:Lisa has cousins and aunties and people beyond the scope of the world that impacts her world today in the job, and so we are not as a D&I practitioner, we are not only functioning on the workforce, we are affecting lives outside of that. So, yes, it's a project management, but it's like you have to find those personable moments where people be like oh my God, I don't know who to ask. I feel very uncomfortable. Can I ask you?
Speaker 3:you know, and even though we don't get it all the time, but today was like I'm doing something right.
Speaker 2:Yay, I love that. Now I really wanted to talk. I love your the work that you do in organizations, but you do so much other stuff and I'd love you to tell me a bit more about that.
Speaker 3:Okay, which side of the life you want. You want the church life, you want the dance life, because I don't think about how much I do until I start talking about it. I'm like gosh, I do do a lot.
Speaker 2:I want to do it all. Let's start with the church life.
Speaker 3:Okay, the church life. So I grew up in church. As far as I can remember, probably eight years old. I had to think way back so many, many moons ago. Once upon a time, there was a little girl named Devin and I grew up in the church.
Speaker 3:Church is really big for me, and one of the unique things when it comes to my faith and diversity and inclusion is I thought it was going to be a conflict at first, and then when I really started meditating about it because I remember the first time that I started kind of inching into diversity I went to. It was like an ally training. I think it's called Safe Space or something, but they had this training around LGBTIQ and it was like all these steps on how you can support, how you can be an ally, how you can be an advocate and like all these steps, and it really just opened the book of what someone's life may look like, and then that community, especially as if you're a transgender, transitioning or anything like that and so I was like, okay, what Like cause? It's totally a different nuance. Okay, so fast forward. I move into diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 3:I'm like I really love this, and one of the things that I realized as I've been advocating for certain stuff is that I'm, as I'm working with various LGBTI groups, they don't want to hear from Christian people and I'm like yo, wow, I forgot the term that people use, but I call them super Christians.
Speaker 3:So a super Christian is when they are so heavenly bound that they're no earthly good. That's what I'm trying to say. And so they're like oh, Jesus is so great, so they do no harm they, just everybody's just sucks and going to hell. Right, my Bible tells me that there are 10 commandments, but greater of all those commandments is to love one another, and one of the things that I do want to make sure that I point out is that there's this group of Christianity that are like fire and brimstone, but don't let them give you a bad rep for the rest of the Christians that are there to love and support anyone, no matter what their unique differences is. And, um, cause, let me tell you something I, I, I something. I love everybody. I love the people.
Speaker 3:But, that is one of the things that has been a challenge for me in the journey, because a lot of people, especially when I'm trying to support, when I'm bringing in speaker, they're like, wait, she's a Christian and she's. I'm like, and? But she's not talking about Christianity, she's talking about her business point of view on how mental health is effective. You know, blah, blah, blah, and so that has been one of the unique pieces of who I am the intersectionality of me and my job in regards to diversity and inclusion. Does that make sense? I felt like I just rambled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, completely, completely. And do you know, I think I have avoided talking about religion in terms of diversity and inclusion, and more recently, I've been having conversations with other D&I leaders and we can't ignore religion because it's part of people's identity and it's part of people's culture. But I've started to see where the tensions and the conflicts are, particularly in organizations can be between Christian and LGBTI groups, or Muslim and LGBTI groups, and so I think we have to start talking about that and we have to start saying you can believe whatever you want, but when you come into the workplace, we will respect each other. We may not like what you do, but we will respect each other. And I think you're talking about the sort of evangelical group of Christians.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's the term I was looking for.
Speaker 2:And I mean they exist in all religions, those you know hyper kind of committed over the top maybe.
Speaker 3:The super Christians.
Speaker 2:The super Christians. I love that term, but you know, I'm really heartened. In Singapore, within about a kilometre of my house, there's a Christian church. There's like a collection of Christian churches. It's like this is where they're all going to be, and one of them has a massive rainbow on the side and it says everyone is welcome here, and that is so heartening to me. In a society where gay sex is illegal, it's not really. That's right. That law is not enforced, but there is a law.
Speaker 3:So yeah, there's hope and there's progress and there is progress and if I have anything to do with it, there will be some discussion in the church house and on the other side because I just really believe that it's like a catch 22 for me, because let's say, for example, hypothetically okay, christians, you want to, you know, bring someone into the house to even hear about god. They ain't gonna hear. That you gotta say if all you're doing is ridiculing them. But what burns my biscuits?
Speaker 3:Yes, burn my biscuits is a good term, it's a country term, but what burns my biscuits is I feel that some of the super christians that I refer to emphasize certain things in their beliefs more than others. Cause I'm like, wait, I think gluttony in our two and your plate is on swole and I know you eat way beyond what you post to be. I know the Bible talks about that, like you eating pork every day of the week, like I know that's old Testament, but so it's just like you can't pick and choose fam and so if we want to talk about it, then let's focus on what god said the greatest of the commandments is, and that is to love everyone, and to love your neighbors as christ has loved so love it.
Speaker 2:So tell me what else you're working on, because you've got I mean you've got one of the funniest tiktoks going and I'm going to put your link in the show.
Speaker 3:You've got an amazing instagram page.
Speaker 2:But so, first of all, I didn't know the work you do.
Speaker 3:I didn't know TikTok was going to be a thing I really didn't like. I legit went to TikTok as a way of escape with all the social injustice that was going on two years ago because, as a black woman with a half black son he's Afakasi, his dad is Samoan and I'm African-American, so in the Samoan culture they refer to him as Af Afakasi. And one of the funny things is that, like I was kind of like you know, hey, like let's love each other in the workplace, how can we support blah, blah, blah. But then emotionally I'm kind of dealing with my own stuff. Like how do I process this when my son becomes older? And then he's also high functioning Autist, has high functioning level one with autism, and so I'm like what if he's pulled over by cops and they don't understand his socialization and blah. So I'm almost grieving a future that I don't even know is going to come because of all the stuff that we're seeing in the news. So I turned to tiktok the best therapist on social media and then all of a sudden I guess about 40 plus thousand people thought I was funny and that's what happened. But I truly turned to. Turned to TikTok as a way of escape, just to find humor in the world, because I got sick of watching the news. But I enjoy it, I have fun. I love engaging with other cultures, which is where a lot of my audience comes from, so it's been great.
Speaker 3:I do do consulting on the side. I kind of paused on it. Since my relocation, I do consulting with. It's weird, the business is called DP Square. Since my relocation, I do consulting with. The business is called DP Square. I'm a partner with my daughter and my daughter is 20 years old. She doesn't allow me to discuss her age, but she does social media management and I focus on the HR consulting and diversity consulting and training side. One of the things that we're hoped to do and it evolved into is that a small business that is developing or midsize business can come to us for any type of resources that they may need and be able to take the load off of them. So social media, that's her thing, even though I've somehow fell into the world from therapeutic reasons, even though you're very good at it.
Speaker 3:And then on the other side, I do trainings and I've worked with several people in different industries, whether it's from the tech music industry, and I've just I've worked with several people in different industries, whether it's from the tech music industry, and I've just I really enjoyed the work that I do. And one of the things that I really love about the work that I do is that I kind of can make my own rules, and so even when I first kind of do my first assessment of what the scope of work may be, I get to decide if I want to fool with you or not. If I feel like you checking a box, don't waste my time, I don't care what your check is. Yeah, someone else could be getting this knowledge and and and information for me and energy and then I've had a few companies that it's like, well, we need to do.
Speaker 3:No, it's gonna be through somebody else, because you're not wasting Deb and Michelle's time today.
Speaker 2:So because I'm really passionate about what I do yeah, and I do love that piece where you, you know you get to choose your own work and you can kind of run your own show. And for me, starting the podcast was a bit like that. Like you know, when you're working in big organizations and you're working in D&I and you've got to influence lots of people and you don't necessarily have control over what people are doing or some of the decisions that get made, or decisions take a long time to have something that's kind of your own. I think, particularly during the last 18 months, just having something that you can control yourself when everything else is out of control is a really important thing.
Speaker 3:That is like the awesome sauce to to it right there, because you sometimes like being in a global company, you kind of lose your voice because there's so many things that are being done and, to your point, there's an agenda that's being ran, that you can't, but I believe that everybody's voice has an audience and everybody needs to hear everyone's voice.
Speaker 3:So that's why I always try to empower people to take the muzzle off your mouth and quit being scared and speak your knowledge, that you know, because you can pick the lane to share what you're passionate about and what you know to an audience that does want to know about it, because people are listening to the doll called diversity.
Speaker 2:I like that name, by the way.
Speaker 3:I really love it.
Speaker 2:It's cute, right, it's cute. I'd be really interested to know how you've come through the last 18 months, two years, how you've come through the last 18 months, two years. I mean, I'm hoping that when we're old we'll look back at this time and, I don't know, have some wisdom about it. But you know it's been really tough. So how, how are you now? How have you come through?
Speaker 3:it. So I'll share a quick embarrassing story. No, I'm not going to share the details of it. So when COVID started, I was all excited and I was like in this fantasy world that, oh, I'm going to work from home and my son's going to be working next to me. This is going to be so beautiful and cute. The first day I focused, look at the screen. No, no, you can't get in my monitor while I'm in a meeting.
Speaker 3:It was like I was stressed out to the max, to the point that I was fussing with a person on the phone and evidently my son's computer was on mute but the functionality of the mute button was not working, so the entire classroom could hear me, and so the teacher tried to call me and I'm like decline, because I'm frustrated that you don't want to talk to me right now. And she keeps after the third time like yes, she said I'm Devin. And she keeps after the third time like yes, she said Devin. And she was embarrassed. She should have been embarrassed because I was very articulate and colorful at some things that I was saying. We can hear everything. We're trying to mute a screen but it's not working. I was so embarrassed, and so that tells you how the beginning of the journey started. I was beyond frustrated. If I had hair it would be gone by now, so I'm glad I shaved. But on the flip side of it, one of the things that the journey has taught me is to value your time with your family and your mental health more than I'm accustomed to, just because of COVID.
Speaker 3:But pre-COVID I felt like I was in a as a single parent. I'm a single parent. I was almost I'm trying to find the word for it but I was always scared for my job. So I'm like, oh my God, I got to clock in. I want to make sure I don't get fired Like everything was. I'm about to lose my job. I'm about to lose my job. Okay, don't ask me this. I've been on TikTok too long, so it's one of them things where I felt like I was always in a scarce mode of doing something wrong and you know, cause.
Speaker 3:I saw layoffs happening. I've been impacted by a downsizing twice. So I'm like oh my God, like so. I felt like I really didn't have peace in my career. But I realized at the end of the day I can't control that If my position is eliminated, whatever the case, all I can do is try my best. But being stressed is not going to make me even any more effective. It's going to make me less effective. So I have chosen to enjoy my time with my son. I have chosen to be intentional with my time and meeting. I don't try to be in every meetings because I can't, because I won't get no work done, and I realized that I am the biggest asset that I need to take care of, cause if not, then I don't have nothing to give my company, and that's what I've learned in COVID, because we have been forced to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gosh, I had such a similar experience to you. I think I had a period of two months where I was awake at 3am every night, just going, okay, if I lose my job, what's the plan? And every night at 3am I would solve that problem. But like I never just solved it once and it was the same problem, the same solution, every single night at 3am, until I started to just go, okay, if it happens, it happens, and I've got to let go of that stuff. And until I started to do some things that I had some control over and you know, we a bit like you, we started to think about how can we enjoy our time together, stuck in the one place, and we had some routines. We put Friday night movies in as an end to the week, even though every single day was the same. And, like many people, we did lots of COVID cooking. We did lots of COVID cocktails not with the kids, but you know I got.
Speaker 3:COVID 15.
Speaker 2:That's the 15 pounds I haven't shook it all off, yet I'm working on it Exactly, you know, and I think that's good.
Speaker 3:It been such good lighting, I think yeah, I think that if you, because if you to maintain your sobriety, to maintain your peace, I think you've had no choice but to like wait, because, I'd be honest, in on the first quarter of it I felt like I was going to mentally crack I. I got back into therapy. I was like, hey, fix it. Like what, what is going on? And I realized that I mean, literally, I'm working from home. At the time I didn't have a dedicated office because I didn't know I would be a hundred percent remote. So I moved into like a loft style apartment. Who works remote in a loft?
Speaker 1:with a six-year-old.
Speaker 3:Nobody, so I quickly changed that circumstance um but, it was like all these dynamics that I was like wait a second. I feel like I'm about to crack from my own to be here for my child. I need to figure this out and one of the things is I can't be everything to everybody. What are my big rocks for this week? What am I going to focus on? How am I going to be valuable? Because, on the end of my stone, what we're not going to do is Devin work the ass off all day. That's what we're not going to. Can I say ass on here? I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can say it. It's my podcast and I set the rules. You've got the power. I got the power, baby. Well, I think I mean you just didn't have COVID. We had George Floyd being killed by the police and the subsequent protests and issues out of that, I mean it was a lot of. Covid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we had COVID, we had that George Floyd, aubrey, a series of names that I can't even recall to the point. And it's funny because my daughter's a big advocate. Like you think that I'm a bulldog? You ain't met nobody till you met my daughter and she wanted to go out and protest. And you know, and I was there for it. I mean, my parents were protesting back in their day, but it's a different day and age, and I was like trying to discourage her for her safety, and so it was like it was a lot of emotional turmoil and that's probably what led me to want to crack, because with COVID, virtual school, all these deaths that are happening, then it's like nobody's getting charged Brianna Taylor, you know. So it was like and it just wouldn't stop. I'm like, damn it, somebody fix it. Like and then, yeah, then we then we didn't know who the president was, even after election. So it was like a lot happening, that that I'm like it felt so surreal. I'm like am I watching a movie? Like, are we about?
Speaker 2:it felt like yeah, I think the last thing for me, or I felt like, is that world gonna ever right itself? Was when, um, the capital was stormed and, like you know, in Singapore, where I live, and you wake up to that and it's like what. What does that mean, like what? But it seems and I'd love your perspective on this because you're living in the US but it seems, with Biden and Kamala Harris, that things have settled down. But is that your take? What do you know especially?
Speaker 3:since I moved to Florida. So so one of the things. Well, let me back up to the whole capital getting stormed, because let's be, let's keep it completely real and keep it funky. If that was a bunch of black people storming the capital, there would have been a bunch of dead black people on the Capitol grounds.
Speaker 2:They would not have made it and they'd all be in jail.
Speaker 3:Yes, the ones that aren't dead, exactly. So that was kind of traumatizing to me, because this is also on the heels of all these death by police officers, right. So it's like yo like how did these people walk out? Like, how do these people walk out? People are dropping their first, last name and city they are supporting from, and a lot of them were in even governmental positions and they kept their jobs. And it wasn't until social media kind of came in and started kind of like things going viral. Then they started making arrests but then people weren't charged like as much as some african-americans were charged just in previous years. So it's just like a whole lot of stuff.
Speaker 3:And when Kamala Harris and Biden came in, yeah, I think the people that recognize just representation matters there was like almost like a calm kind of like when Obama got in position and it was like, oh my God, the first female, the first half, you know all these representations that are happening. And then I mean the people that he was designated to certain seats. I was like shut up. I ain't seen that many black people ever in the White House, you know. So it was really exciting from that perspective. But it's one of the things where, for example, the people that were so loud during Trump's administration, yeah, are just as loud now because they still think that he won the presidency. They are still running around, you know, trump for president in 2020, whenever the next election year is. I am in Trump's state I jokingly say in Florida, because this is one of Trump's biggest supporting state and they are very vocal about their support and I don't have no issues with the man.
Speaker 3:My thing is, when it comes to basic things that he said regarding various diverse demographics, I'll say that. But has it changed anything? Maybe has things dialed down a little bit, way more than that, whatever, but I think some places realized they had to take accountabilities. Companies are all of a sudden excited about diversity. They ain't thought about that. Diversity has been important for years, but all of a sudden, you just now get a revelation. That's because you don't want to be on the front paper and get the news and get canceled, because we are in a canceling generation will be able to answer the question if some wrongs will be made. Right, because right now people are doing diversity stuff and doing stuff that looks good. But are you just checking a box? Are you actually trying to implement change and culture change, and so I think, at the end of the day, there's some things that are happening, that it seems like things are dying down and starting to get in place, but we still have a long way to go. We got tons of work to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agree.
Speaker 3:That was a whole mouthful, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:No, that was amazing. That was amazing and, you know, from the outside it looks like some better things are happening in the US, but it's always good to hear what's happening on the inside. I mean, I think Biden has made vaccinations happen and he's, you know, I think, calmed stuff down a bit, which needed to happen because the us was looking like we was looking crazy too yeah yes, when other countries are looking as like are y'all okay?
Speaker 3:like from other country, like from london and africa, I was like this is not okay. When people are whatsapping me from other countries asking what we doing, that ain't me on tv, that's deal. Yeah, and I'm now having to classify as an American. This feels odd. But we weren't like. We was on some some stuff. I'm like this is some bull like and I really feel like we were almost like juveniles. I'm like is is this how we acted? And it was like no accountability, no, nothing. But I think it was kind of when you know, when you boil an egg and it finally cracks. I think that was the state towards the end of the administration.
Speaker 3:It was like things were brewing and people were getting frustrated on both sides, and the egg just cracked, so something had to give.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, size, and it, the egg just cracked, so something had to give. Yeah, yeah. And I have to tell you the inauguration of Biden and Kamala was one of the most emotional things I've seen, and I haven't lived what you've lived, but that was such an incredible moment to see. I cried yeah, I did too, but it was so like why I didn't cry for.
Speaker 3:Obama. I was excited about Obama because I'm like a black man is in office.
Speaker 3:And it was, and don't get me wrong, like from a political view, did I? Did I agree with anybody? A hundred percent, no. But at the same time, when you start seeing representation, it starts empowering something in you that you can one day do something and do more than what you're doing. And one of the things that blessed my life and I know you didn't ask this, I'm sorry, I think it was Michelle Obama she was in an interview and someone had asked, mentioned something, like they were at a dinner and it was like how does it feel being at all these dinners with all these great people and blah, blah, blah at the table? And she said you realize that there's not us, there's some a lot of not smart people at the table. And I was like shut up.
Speaker 3:I love that quote, my experience and my knowledge can actually make moves. So it actually has empowered me to pursue more and and, and do what I do, you know, and actually push the envelope and explore positions that I probably wouldn't have explored before.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm not trying to be in everybody's White.
Speaker 3:House though.
Speaker 2:No no. That is such a great quote from Michelle Obama. Yeah, yeah, what a fantastic leader.
Speaker 3:That blessed my life so bad.
Speaker 2:So what's next for you, devon? What are your plans for the next I don't know six to 12 months? Is it world domination?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, awesome. I'm in a place where I've been engaged in so many like I've done, had the opportunity to do some commercial modeling, being brand ambassadors things that I really like, because I feel like if you get on a platform then you can open your mouth about the things you're passionate of. The things is I want to be very influential in schools at a younger generations, because we always try to implement diversity when it comes to work. But guess what? That seed was planted many moons ago and even when we're looking at diversity recruitment, people focus on college recruitment. Guess what baby. They have already figured out what they want to be with in middle school.
Speaker 3:So I really want to start helping with diversity of thought in elementary and middle school. I really want to just really see what else is out there, to get involved and sit on boards and just make an impact, because I realized that, even though I enjoy getting dirty and being in the trenches, that's not where the change happens. The change happens when you're at the table, in the board positions, at a place of influence, that your voice can be heard and you can speak on behalf of other people. So that is not necessarily something I'm trying to like actively pursue, but things that I'm open to as time allows.
Speaker 2:So, oh, I love that. That's what I want to do when I grow up. Well, we can do it together. We can do it together.
Speaker 3:Girl power.
Speaker 1:Let's do it.
Speaker 2:Is there anything you wanted to end with? Is there anything we haven't spoken about? Like, oh, I really want to.
Speaker 3:I don't think so, but one of the things. Well, like I say that, then I'm about to follow it up with something to share.
Speaker 1:So it was funny, I did this.
Speaker 3:TikTok on. I was actually working on a TikTok with me and my son he's six years old, yes, he's a TikToker and Janie, and one of the things that I always tell him is that he has a special sauce, and one of the things that I want people to know is that everyone has a special sauce. You can call it sauce or salt seasoning, whatever, but whatever your uniqueness is, be open to bring it to the table, because when you bring your flavor of uniqueness, it will make the recipe that much better. So don't be afraid to bring your secret sauce to whatever table you're sitting at.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Devin. I love that we're going to end on that note. It's perfect.
Speaker 3:Cool beans.
Speaker 1:thank you for having me, lisa thank you for staying to the end. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, we would love you to leave a five-star rating and a comment on apple podcasts. This helps others find and enjoy a dog called diversity. This helps others find and enjoy A Dog Called Diversity.